Emasculated Husband Counseling
Part 2 of 2
Part 1
Chat 1: How Can I Convince My Corporate Wife To Be More Feminine ?
Chat 2: I Dressed Up As A House-Wife To Shock Her: The Results
Part 2
Chat 3: Sealing the Deal: The Man Becomes The Wife
Chat 4: Negotiating A New Happiness
Sealing The Deal: The Man Becomes The Wife
Third Chat: May 22, 2008
big_boss2008: Hi there. You aren't around, are you?
mind_mistress: nope
big_boss2008: Things have developed with my wife... and I think it's a mixed blessing. As you said it would, it has led to some frank discussions. But the results are mixed. Would love to chat with you when you have a moment.
mind_mistress: Sure
mind_mistress: Without good communication, it's not a relationship, it's a stalemate. I'm curious to hear where your discussions went, and I'm willing to chat. It's not about good or bad as much as figuring out what choices are there.
big_boss2008: I agree about communication being important. Looking forward to chatting with you when you have a free moment.
mind_mistress: I was going to take a bath
mind_mistress: We can chat in an hour or so if you like :)
big_boss2008: Oh, hello! Please, don't let me stop you from your bath. That's very kind of you to offer, though.
big_boss2008: I'd be happy to come back in an hour, if that's ok with you.
mind_mistress: sure, later !
big_boss2008: Have a nice bath!
...
big_boss2008: Hi.. hope you had/are having a nice bath. I'm here when you return.
mind_mistress: It was nice. I'll get a bite and be back in a few minutes.
big_boss2008: Sure thing, happy to wait.
...
mind_mistress: All right, let's talk :)
mind_mistress: So what's been happening?
big_boss2008: Well... hmmm, where to start? First off, I'm just going to tell you stuff... and not try to worry about putting it in a way that makes me sound best, you know? Don't want to waste your time.
mind_mistress: Sure...
big_boss2008: We've had two really loooong discussions about all this, and a few other short ones.
big_boss2008: I told her all the stuff I'd been thinking, and what I was hoping for. I even told her what I was originally looking into... ways to modify her or whatever. She wasn't mad, as much as she was disappointed.
big_boss2008: The whole dressing up thing, even now she thinks I was doing it to make fun of her. She keeps going back to that. But like you said, it got us talking, and that's good. She acknowledges that.
big_boss2008: So anyway, I did tell her how I felt she was becoming less and less feminine, and it was affecting our relationship. I even said the part about how I felt like our roles were switching some, and that I didn't like it.
mind_mistress: I'd say you were desperate more than anything else to go through with the dressing to make a point
big_boss2008: Yes, I said pretty much that. I think she gets it, but she's not conceeding it, yet.
big_boss2008: And after I made all my points? She preceded to make me feel pretty terrible about myself. About how selfish I was being.
big_boss2008: Basically, she said she's never felt better about herself. She loves who she is and her career. And yeah, she knows she has changed to fit into "a man's world" but she said it is worth it. And she said it is selfish of me to not be supportive and happy for her.. since these changes for supposedly for "our" benefit.
big_boss2008: She basically said that she thought our relationship was great, and while she appreciated that I was taking a backseat role in some things, she wish I didn't always do it with a "grumpy look".
big_boss2008: She said that my "asshole friends" (her words) were probably to blame for me feeling like things have to be a certain way, and asked me what was so wrong with us just doing what we need to do to be happy.
big_boss2008: And what would make her happy, she said, is if, yeah, she could continue to be the career person, and I could continue to be supportive of her.. .and happy about it. Happy for her. And screw what people think.
big_boss2008: I'm sure I left stuff out.
big_boss2008: Mostly though, we're left where she thinks I was being selfish. Even though I kind of think it could be argued that she is being selfish too.
mind_mistress: In other words...
mind_mistress: she's getting exactly what she wants...
mind_mistress: and why can't you be happy with her getting what she wants?
big_boss2008: Yes
mind_mistress: you're happy she's getting what she wants...
mind_mistress: but you're not happy about not getting what you want
big_boss2008: Well, yeah, of course
big_boss2008: She says why do I have to focus so much on what we are "supposed" to be.
mind_mistress: how's your sex life with her?
big_boss2008: Pretty non-existent. Rare, and when it is anything... it is ... bad.
mind_mistress: in other words...
mind_mistress: you're roomates
big_boss2008: I don't know if I'd say that.. that seems extreme
big_boss2008: But it does have some truth
mind_mistress: So what more is there than roomates have?
mind_mistress: you share house chores and bills and meals
big_boss2008: Yeah, ok.
mind_mistress: I'm serious. Tell me what else the two of you have together
big_boss2008: Well, we love each other.
mind_mistress: Love is a verb as well as a noun for a feeling
mind_mistress: So you feel love for her?
big_boss2008: Yes
mind_mistress: Okay, so you think about her... and you get a warm feeling inside?
big_boss2008: Not as much as I used to, I guess.
big_boss2008: I love her less like a lover, and more like a dear old friend, i guess. Being honest.
mind_mistress: And you're willing to do things for her that you wouldn't do for a roomate?
mind_mistress: or a friend
big_boss2008: I think so, yes
mind_mistress: And you're willing to deprive yourself of some things and behaviors for her happiness?
big_boss2008: I feel like that's all i've been doing.
big_boss2008: And she wants more.
mind_mistress: Okay
mind_mistress: So how do you show her love? The verb now.
big_boss2008: I try to support her career. I'm kind. I'm gentle. I like doing things for her that make her happy. Making dinner if she'll be late, weeding "her" garden that she hasn't done anything with for like two years. I'm not sure if I'm answering it the way you wanted me to.
mind_mistress: That's fine
mind_mistress: and how does she show her love for you?
big_boss2008: She says "Love you" all the time.
big_boss2008: Usually after asking me to do something or telling me she'll be late at work. :-)
mind_mistress: lol
mind_mistress: Words are cheap. What does she *do* ?
mind_mistress: How does she *love* you?
big_boss2008: She earns a good living for us... she buys me things. She shows appreciation when I do things for her. She's nice to me. She's a lot more curt than she used to be, I guess. But I still feel like she loves me. I don't know how to put it into words.
mind_mistress: Okay
mind_mistress: and what do you need from her that you're not getting?
big_boss2008: A traditional male female relationship. I need someone soft and loving and feminine. Sorry if that sounds crappy.
mind_mistress: Your needs are your needs. :)
mind_mistress: So what does a traditional male female relationship include ?
big_boss2008: I just don't feel much like a man in this relationship anymore. It's been a slow thing, but its very striking now. I go to her work events as a "spouse"... I do more housework than she does.. I have to be "understanding" one... There's no sex, except when she initiates.. and then it's very wham bam... I just think things are messed up and I wish they weren't.
big_boss2008: But she's happier than ever. So that's a good thing, yes?
mind_mistress: and why is it important for you to feel like a man?
big_boss2008: Because that's what I am. I mean...why wouldn't it be?
mind_mistress: You are male, yes
big_boss2008: Yes
mind_mistress: So how can you not feel like a man when you know you are one?
mind_mistress: clearly, you can check between your legs for confirmation
big_boss2008: Because for all intents and purposes, in our relationship... she is now the man.
big_boss2008: I'm not blind to that.
big_boss2008: Just did the between leg check. Confirmed. :-)
mind_mistress: I'm not debating that. I'm asking what it is about the man's role that you need
big_boss2008: I don't know, I guess.
big_boss2008: So you agree, though, that in our relationship, she is the man. Right? I'm not overracting (which she said that I was).
mind_mistress: yes
big_boss2008: So if that is the case, where does that leave me?
mind_mistress: you're still not telling me what's important to you about having the man's role
mind_mistress: SOMEONE is doing that job. Why does it have to be you?
big_boss2008: I don't know how to answer it. It embarasses me not to have that role, I guess.
mind_mistress: Okay, you're embarassed
mind_mistress: I can understand that
big_boss2008: Thanks
mind_mistress: If your hair turned hot pink, you'd be embarasse
mind_mistress: embarassed
big_boss2008: Yes
mind_mistress: but it's not that big a deal
mind_mistress: it wouldn't interfere with your life as such
big_boss2008: Having hot pink hair?
mind_mistress: you'd be concerned about what others think
big_boss2008: People would laugh at me.
big_boss2008: Yes
mind_mistress: sure
mind_mistress: So are you more worried about not feeling like a man, or not being seen as a man?
big_boss2008: I honestly don't know.
big_boss2008: Part of me knows that I'm not happy with all this because... I feel like I'm "supposed" to not be happy with this. Being brutally honest.
mind_mistress: Okay
big_boss2008: You know, having her be the prime bread winner and all... isn't so bad.
big_boss2008: But I feel bad admitting that to anyone, including me. And her.
mind_mistress: Well, other than sex, I havn't heard any unsatisfied needs so far from you.
mind_mistress: Perhaps self worth as well
mind_mistress: because you can't find pride in the wife role
mind_mistress: Let's imagine for a moment...
mind_mistress: that men's role in society was to support their career wives
mind_mistress: can you imagine a world like that?
big_boss2008: Sure, I guess so.
mind_mistress: Okay, and that you feel proud of doing that well
mind_mistress: can you imagine how that would feel now?
big_boss2008: Yes. Good, I guess.
mind_mistress: Good
mind_mistress: now, if you have all that
mind_mistress: what's missing for you to be happy in your relationship?
big_boss2008: I don't want to be a wife. But that's what I'm becoming, and she likes this.. and wishes it would continue to advance. I just don't know how to deal with it.
big_boss2008: I know what you're saying about what if the world were different... but it isn't. And I'm not.
mind_mistress: Do you want my help?
big_boss2008: Oh, I'm sorry... did I say something insulting? I didn't mean it. You've been a huge help. I didn't mean to say otherwise.
mind_mistress: Then go back, imagine that situation, and answer the question
mind_mistress: Everyone expects you to be a supportive wife, like all other men are, and you feel proud of how well you do it.
mind_mistress: then what's missing for you to be happy in your relationship?
big_boss2008: Nothing, probably. I mean.. if I were happy as a supportive wife... then things would be great.
big_boss2008: Is that what you mean?
mind_mistress: I didn't say happy. I said you take pride in doing that role
mind_mistress: so you feel self worth
mind_mistress: and importance
big_boss2008: Well yes, taking pride in something would make me happy
mind_mistress: Okay, good
mind_mistress: Now tell me...
mind_mistress: in a wife and husband couple, one supporting and the other breadwinning...
mind_mistress: who's got the more important role?
big_boss2008: The husband
mind_mistress: GOTCHA
mind_mistress: :D
big_boss2008: Becuase I assumed the husband was the breadwinner, you mean?
mind_mistress: no
mind_mistress: Because you think the woman's role is less important
mind_mistress: and you're stuck with it
big_boss2008: I didn't say the world was a fair place. It's just that.. look, if she was a man and I was a woman, I'd be an awesome wife.
mind_mistress: as far as I can tell, you don't have a problem in this relationship. What you have is the belief that women are inferior
mind_mistress: and that's what's screwing you up
big_boss2008: God I don't think I believe that.
mind_mistress: Yes
mind_mistress: You do
mind_mistress: I realize it's a shock, but it's true.
big_boss2008: Can you help me deal with this then?
mind_mistress: Yes, but that would be beyond what I can do in a bit of free advice. It would be a session.
big_boss2008: A session?
mind_mistress: But yes, I can help you change your beliefs
mind_mistress: You know... I'm a therapist... I get paid for this?
big_boss2008: LOL, yes. I just meant... a session to do what?
mind_mistress: Well, you have a few options
mind_mistress: 1) Be miserable and hope she changes
mind_mistress: 2) Leave her and find a traditional woman
mind_mistress: 3) change yourself so you can be happy in the role you have
big_boss2008: I don't think that I think women are inferior. I really don't.
big_boss2008: I just don't want to be one. That's not the same thing.
mind_mistress: Changing her is not an option, since she doesn't want to change
mind_mistress: She's never asked you to be a woman
big_boss2008: wife, woman... same thing.
mind_mistress: Okay, you don't want that role, and you don't want to learn to take pride in it. Then get a divorce.
big_boss2008: I'm really a nice guy, by the way, I sure hope I'm not coming off as some jerk. Sorry if I am.
mind_mistress: I'm sure you're a nice guy, but deep down you believe women are inferior, as are their roles
big_boss2008: So you think I should just say to her.. you be the husband, I'll be the wife... and deal with it.
mind_mistress: If you had told me that she didn't turn you on anymore because she was masculine, I would have taken you seriously. But that isn't your issue. You feel devalued because you have a woman's job.
big_boss2008: I did say that. Sex is... just.. .blah. She is the agressor and it's wham bam.
big_boss2008: She is absolutely the male during sex.
big_boss2008: And I hate it.
mind_mistress: Because you feel devalued
mind_mistress: because women are inferior
big_boss2008: I wouldn't feel that if I were a woman... but I'm not. That's all I'm saying. I"m sure women think men are inferior.
mind_mistress: What's stopping you from taking charge during sex?
big_boss2008: Because she's not..feminine anymore. No more perfume.. No more nighties. I'm not that interested in sex with her, to be honest. I have married friends who say that happens after a few years... so maybe its not a big deal. I don't know.
mind_mistress: Like I said, three choices
mind_mistress: Divorced, proud, or ashamed.
mind_mistress: What'll it be ?
big_boss2008: proud is the only one that doesn't sound terrible.
mind_mistress: you are the only person in your power to change
big_boss2008: You know... it used to be that she would do things to change for me... she once did a whole perm thing when we saw a woman and I said it was hot.
big_boss2008: But now it's all me, having to change for her... or i'm selfish.
big_boss2008: well you're right then... i wish to change, if i can. I don't want a divorce.
mind_mistress: It is typical for husbands to stay later at work...
mind_mistress: because they don't want to go back to their whiny spouse
mind_mistress: Right now, you're the whiny spouse
big_boss2008: Yes, i am.
big_boss2008: I'm the whiny spouse. That's true.
mind_mistress: I'm not saying she isn't also creating the problem... but your passive-aggressive stance isn't making her want to change for you.
mind_mistress: So you can keep whining, or you can accept your role, or refuse it.
big_boss2008: She doesn't want to change for anyone. She loves how she's changing. And who she is. And i can't help but be happy for her... and jealous too.. .and it makes me less attracted to her, you know?
big_boss2008: So accept that I'm the wife.
mind_mistress: I'm not saying that's the right choice
big_boss2008: Seems like the only choice.
mind_mistress: But have the balls to make a choice, instead of whining
big_boss2008: God, I am whiny. You're right.
mind_mistress: if you're going to choose to be a wife, then be a good one, not a whiny one
mind_mistress: If you really don't want that role, then get out of dodge
big_boss2008: There's the little fact that, you know, being a man (or at least male.. hard to call me much of a man in this thing), i can choose to be a "wife" all i want... but it isn't a light switch i can flick to "wife."
mind_mistress: If you're not willing to leave her, then you have no leverage for negotiations
big_boss2008: Oh god, I haven't had leverage for like two years. At least.
big_boss2008: I'm getting used to that part.
mind_mistress: And whining is not sufficient leverage
big_boss2008: Since I said I'd be honest, I will be. Now that she's making so much money... and I don't have a career anymore... I'd be scared to leave.
mind_mistress: as many wives have proven
mind_mistress: And many wives are in that same bind
mind_mistress: By traditional definitions, you havn't been a man for a while
big_boss2008: Yes
mind_mistress: you're just bitter about it
big_boss2008: Yes
big_boss2008: I don't know how it happened.
big_boss2008: But it did.
mind_mistress: I can tell you why
big_boss2008: Please do
mind_mistress: Because it was the easier path
mind_mistress: You chose to passively accept rather than fight
big_boss2008: Yeah
mind_mistress: It didn't happen in a day
mind_mistress: it happened over a hundred little choices that you didn't make
big_boss2008: That I let her make
mind_mistress: yes
mind_mistress: because she had the balls to do it and you didn't
big_boss2008: I agree
mind_mistress: so now you're the supportive wife
big_boss2008: Yeah
mind_mistress: you carved this path for yourself
big_boss2008: I did
mind_mistress: so stop acting like a victim of circumstances
big_boss2008: Yeah
mind_mistress: honestly, do you really want to take charge of your entire life ?
big_boss2008: Honestly... no, I guess not any more.
big_boss2008: I've let her do this. And outwardly.. in front of my eyes... she has totally become a man.
big_boss2008: You know what I mean by that. Not literally. But actually... in many ways not just in attitude. In action too.
mind_mistress: yes
mind_mistress: I'd like you to imagine something... would you?
big_boss2008: Anything
mind_mistress: she comes up behind you...
mind_mistress: runs her fingers in your hair...
mind_mistress: bends your head to the side...
mind_mistress: whispers "Hello sweetheart..."
mind_mistress: and kisses your neck...
mind_mistress: holding you in position by the hair...
mind_mistress: and putting her hand on your chest...
mind_mistress: caressing firmly...
mind_mistress: what are you feeling right now?
big_boss2008: Aroused, to be honest. That sounds so wonderful.
mind_mistress: yes...
mind_mistress: and is it a cool or warm arousal?
big_boss2008: Warm
mind_mistress: warm...
mind_mistress: and do you feel yourself ready for action... or more melting for her?
big_boss2008: melting for her
mind_mistress: melting...
mind_mistress: feeling all tingly inside?
big_boss2008: yes very
mind_mistress: and limbs going rubbery?
big_boss2008: yes
mind_mistress: her nails rake your chest now...
mind_mistress: it is more heat... or chills?
big_boss2008: more like goosebumps
mind_mistress: yes...
mind_mistress: do the feelings run up and down...
mind_mistress: or radiate?
big_boss2008: up and down
mind_mistress: as she squeezes...
mind_mistress: comes to sit on your lap...
mind_mistress: and pulls you into a firm embrace...
mind_mistress: what's the feeling now?
big_boss2008: so warm and wonderful
mind_mistress: yes...
mind_mistress: what's the first word that comes to mind for this wonderful feeling?
big_boss2008: safe
mind_mistress: Yes
mind_mistress: Exactly
mind_mistress: and you like it?
big_boss2008: love it
mind_mistress: You love it...
mind_mistress: you want to ravish her... or let her do whatever she wants with you?
big_boss2008: let her do whatever
mind_mistress: This is Yin arousal
mind_mistress: arousal in the feminine role
mind_mistress: and you like it
big_boss2008: i do
mind_mistress: I'm sure you've felt Yang arousal before...
mind_mistress: the active pulsing driving hot want
big_boss2008: yes
mind_mistress: Both are fun, and both sexes can feel both
big_boss2008: this is so much better
mind_mistress: you like this one better?
big_boss2008: oh my god, yes
mind_mistress: Then why don't you just go with it?
mind_mistress: Embrace it
mind_mistress: this is what you are now
mind_mistress: and what you like
mind_mistress: be gracious and yielding
mind_mistress: enjoy it
mind_mistress: and take pride in it
big_boss2008: being gracious and yielding... does sound nice
mind_mistress: You're the wife
mind_mistress: Be a good one
mind_mistress: because you DO enjoy her being the man
mind_mistress: much as you protest it
big_boss2008: yes
mind_mistress: because you don't think you *should* enjoy it
mind_mistress: but you do
mind_mistress: enjoy it
mind_mistress: so be gracious and yielding
mind_mistress: so she WILL want to take you the way you want to be taken
big_boss2008: she deserves an awesome wife. i just dont know if that can be me
mind_mistress: You already are
mind_mistress: all you need to do is make peace with yourself about it
big_boss2008: i know she act and thinks and, ok, IS male... and the husband.
big_boss2008: but i am not feminine, or female. how do i be that wife for her?
mind_mistress: Imagine how it would feel to accept that. To honestly accept it. Her being the man. You being the wife. And be okay with that. Proud even.
mind_mistress: can you imagine how that would feel?
big_boss2008: i'm not comfortable with the idea of her being the man and me being attracted to another man.
big_boss2008: is that bad?
mind_mistress: But you aren't another man
mind_mistress: you're the woman
mind_mistress: she's the man
mind_mistress: it all fits
mind_mistress: You still have a penis, she still has a vagina
mind_mistress: You don't have to wear a dress to be feminine
big_boss2008: then how?
mind_mistress: Think of minstrels, who romance women under their balcony
mind_mistress: with flowing shirts and long hair
mind_mistress: The kind you see on women's romance novels
mind_mistress: They are feminine, but still male
mind_mistress: do you see that?
big_boss2008: no i don't quite understand
mind_mistress: Have you seen Pirates of the Carribean?
big_boss2008: yes
mind_mistress: The heroes. Are they manly looking?
big_boss2008: yes, sort of.
big_boss2008: i mean.. they are manly to be sur
big_boss2008: sure
mind_mistress: Jack Sparrow talks like he's queerer than a three dollar bill
big_boss2008: but he's all man
mind_mistress: He wears lots of eyeliner and mascara
big_boss2008: true
mind_mistress: he moves like he's flaming gay
big_boss2008: yeah
big_boss2008: do i need to do those things to be the woman my wife needs, are you saying?
mind_mistress: and the blonde dude is a baby faced guy who could pass for a woman without trying very hard
big_boss2008: yeah
mind_mistress: And yet, they're hearthrobs
big_boss2008: and i guess i have to stop thinking of her as my wife
mind_mistress: They're very feminine men
mind_mistress: Romantic figures, made as eye candy for women
mind_mistress: but effeminate as they are... no one calls them on it!
big_boss2008: i'd rather be a regular woman than a feminine man, does that make any sense?
mind_mistress: sure
mind_mistress: In your next life
mind_mistress: this one is just practice
mind_mistress: But it's still important
big_boss2008: i want to be a good woman and wife for her
mind_mistress: You're worried about being
mind_mistress: I'm telling you you already are. Just focus on *doing*
big_boss2008: i want to be taken that way you said... i haven't felt anyting like that in forever.
mind_mistress: That's the hand you've dealt yourself
mind_mistress: So act like a loving wife if you want a loving husband
big_boss2008: i do want both those things
mind_mistress: Take care of your looks
mind_mistress: That's part of your role now
big_boss2008: ok
mind_mistress: You want her to dress nice
mind_mistress: start by dressing nice yourself
big_boss2008: i want her to dress like she wants to dress. she is under enough pressure. that's what she is saying and .. she's right.
mind_mistress: Ask yourself "What would a loving wife do?"
mind_mistress: and then do it
big_boss2008: i don't know those answers, though. they aren't part of me. but i wish now they were.
mind_mistress: Of course you know
big_boss2008: should i ask her?
mind_mistress: it's what you expected from her
mind_mistress: you just have to do it yourself
mind_mistress: Yes, asking her is a VERY good idea
big_boss2008: is it weird if i think of myself as a wife and a woman? isn't that weird, though?
mind_mistress: Dude, whatever works
mind_mistress: if it saves your marriage and you're happy in it...
mind_mistress: then use it
big_boss2008: well then.. don't call me "dude". lol
mind_mistress: lol
mind_mistress: Okay :)
big_boss2008: so what should i say to her?
mind_mistress: Notice that created dissonance when I called you "dude"
big_boss2008: i didn't like it, to be honest.
big_boss2008: it was like a slap in the face
mind_mistress: I did it on purpose
mind_mistress: To help you realize...
mind_mistress: realize what you think?
big_boss2008: it kind of made me embarassed that i'd been thinking that yeah.. maybe i should and could be a woman... her wife.
big_boss2008: then you called me dude and it felt like you were saying "yeah, like you could really be that. not!"
big_boss2008: but you're saying that's now how you meant it.
mind_mistress: Yes
mind_mistress: To show you how you've come to accept what you are during our conversation
mind_mistress: and be happy with it
big_boss2008: i feel a bit shaken up still by you calling me that, to be honest. it makes me feel.. like i'm being foolish.
mind_mistress: So tell me...
mind_mistress: what would you like to be called?
big_boss2008: i don't care
big_boss2008: i just didn't like that.
big_boss2008: i'm not trying to be difficult. i'm sorry. i was just being honest.
mind_mistress: You're a loving wife
mind_mistress: say it to yourself. See how it feels.
big_boss2008: it sounds nice
mind_mistress: :)
mind_mistress: So imagine tomorrow night how you will greet your wife...
mind_mistress: tell me about it...
big_boss2008: with dinner and a smile
mind_mistress: A compliment perhaps?
big_boss2008: ask her about her day and all.
mind_mistress: empathy for a hard day?
big_boss2008: yes
mind_mistress: An offer to help her relax?
big_boss2008: yes
mind_mistress: Take a minute or two to vividly imagine that...
mind_mistress: as she arrives...
mind_mistress: being a loving wife for her
big_boss2008: i always make her go out on the porch to smoke, and i'm a bit rude about it... because she didn't used to smoke much at all and now smokes a lot. i'll go out there with her to talk. just stand down wind. i think she'd like if i did that.
big_boss2008: i actually think that's been pretty rude of me, and i feel bad about it.
mind_mistress: What would a loving wife do?
big_boss2008: be supportive
mind_mistress: more concretely?
big_boss2008: not be so judgemental
mind_mistress: and?
mind_mistress: That's internal behavior. What would that look like to someone watching?
big_boss2008: i don't know. it would look like me going outside with her instead of telling her not to do soemthing in her own house?
mind_mistress: ok
mind_mistress: Now imagine breakfast a week from now...
mind_mistress: as a loving wife...
mind_mistress: imagine that in vivid detail..
big_boss2008: getting up before her... i started to say "in my nightie"... but actually.. i don't know. as a woman.. that would be nice, yes? making breakfast for my husband. having it on the table, with the paper. making coffee.
big_boss2008: what if i said he could smoke at the table, with the coffee and while she was reading the paper. just being supportive.
mind_mistress: you could
big_boss2008: then cleaning up and helping get things ready for work
mind_mistress: yes
big_boss2008: that would be nice of me
mind_mistress: you could wear an attractive bathrobe
big_boss2008: yeah
mind_mistress: how does it feel, doing all that?
big_boss2008: it feels nice
big_boss2008: i like how it feels to imagine letting her smoke inside. it feels like getting rid of one of those things that i "demand".. which now feel like things i shouldn't do. right?
mind_mistress: it's not a question of should or shouldn't
mind_mistress: what do you get from not lettting her smoke inside?
big_boss2008: i don't like the smell
mind_mistress: and what do you get from lettting her smoke inside?
big_boss2008: making her happy?
mind_mistress: Which result do you prefer?
big_boss2008: i want her to be happy. but i really hate the smell.
big_boss2008: i guess i could go outside instead of her?
mind_mistress: up to you...
big_boss2008: what would you suggest?
mind_mistress: telling her about your feelings on the matter, in such a way as to emphasize your wanting her to be happy
mind_mistress: and asking her what she thinks you should do
big_boss2008: ok
mind_mistress: Now imagine a weekend day two weeks from now...
big_boss2008: what am i supposed to imagine?
mind_mistress: how do you and her spend your day?
big_boss2008: a lot of our weekends are apart. she works a lot of weekend mornings, and so i sometimes do things with my friends.
big_boss2008: that seems pretty shitty of me
mind_mistress: it's okay to have friends
mind_mistress: you don't live exclusively for her
big_boss2008: i just mean, she's going to work until 11, and i go do stuff with them all day and don't come home until dinner time sometimes.
big_boss2008: 11 am, i mean. just a few hours.
mind_mistress: You don't have to spend all your time with her
mind_mistress: but when you're together... just make it good together time :)
big_boss2008: ok
mind_mistress: I mean, being supportive is good...
mind_mistress: but don't go overboard in forgetting yourself completely for her benefit
mind_mistress: Neither extreme is healthy
big_boss2008: ok
mind_mistress: Like my friend the spiritualist says...
mind_mistress: it's good to find a happy medium :D
big_boss2008: lol
mind_mistress: lol
mind_mistress: Now let's imagine three weeks from now...
mind_mistress: an evening...
mind_mistress: and seducing her into bed...
mind_mistress: women have power in this... so use it
big_boss2008: i don't know how to do that... to be a woman in bed.
big_boss2008: other than how it is now where she just uses me sometimes. and you don't mean that
mind_mistress: You do. You proved it earlier
mind_mistress: Gracious and yielding
mind_mistress: Now, think about how men and women act...
mind_mistress: if a woman is always grumpy and whiny...
mind_mistress: the man won't want her
mind_mistress: except when his need is too great
mind_mistress: then he just gets it done to relieve his sexual needs
mind_mistress: but there's little love there
mind_mistress: right?
big_boss2008: right
mind_mistress: The man initiates... but the woman has to show willingness...
mind_mistress: be seductive... and let him initiate
big_boss2008: linda.. the idea of being a woman in bed. that seems very hard to me.
mind_mistress: you already are
big_boss2008: i'm not sure i can feel comfortable
mind_mistress: you're just bad at seducing
mind_mistress: how do women get their man in bed?
big_boss2008: but i mean, i'm not sure how i feel about thinking of myself as a woman in bed. it feels weird. it feels a bit embarassing.
mind_mistress: you won't be a woman in bed
mind_mistress: you'll be Yin
mind_mistress: and we already proved you like it
big_boss2008: but it seems important to be a loving wife in bed for my husband. i want to be that.
big_boss2008: it just embarases me
mind_mistress: sure
mind_mistress: then be a woman... and be embarassed and blushing
mind_mistress: that's feminine too :)
big_boss2008: there's something erotic about that.
big_boss2008: but embarassing that i feel that way
mind_mistress: embarassment can be sexy too
mind_mistress: imagine yourself saying to her in a timid voice "I... want you to take me... but I'm embarassed about asking for it"
mind_mistress: holding her hand...
mind_mistress: caressing her arm lightly
mind_mistress: That gives her full license to take charge...
mind_mistress: you've given her consent...
mind_mistress: which is what women do
big_boss2008: i want her... to be him. my husband.
big_boss2008: to be his loving wife.
mind_mistress: women decide when they'll allow sex to happen...
big_boss2008: i think
mind_mistress: but you have to hint at it... make an opening...
big_boss2008: this is confusing
big_boss2008: hint at it. ok
mind_mistress: be sensual
mind_mistress: sweet
mind_mistress: caring
mind_mistress: look at her with desire
big_boss2008: i want to think of her as him. is that ok?
mind_mistress: sure
mind_mistress: Imagine caressing him lightly...
mind_mistress: maybe massaging his shoulders
big_boss2008: it almost seems like that would be.. easier? is that wrong?
mind_mistress: whatever works for you honey...
mind_mistress: running your hand in his hair...
mind_mistress: kissing his cheek...
mind_mistress: his ear...
mind_mistress: his neck...
mind_mistress: pulling away a bit...
mind_mistress: looking shy
mind_mistress: and letting him take charge
big_boss2008: i feel really turned on by this
mind_mistress: of course you do, honey
mind_mistress: you want your man to make you feel good
mind_mistress: you just have to encourage him a bit
big_boss2008: yes
mind_mistress: show him you want him
big_boss2008: you said i have to "make an opening" for him...
mind_mistress: how do women let a man know they're interested?
big_boss2008: those things you said
mind_mistress: remember how a woman looks at a man...
mind_mistress: how she sits..
mind_mistress: moves...
mind_mistress: plays with her hair...
big_boss2008: i want to be wonderful at those things
mind_mistress: Practice practice practice...
mind_mistress: see what works with him...
mind_mistress: everyone's a bit different
mind_mistress: I think you have a lot to work with now
mind_mistress: and it's late
mind_mistress: let me know how it goes
big_boss2008: i will
big_boss2008: im very excited, nervous and aroused and confused by all of this.
big_boss2008: but i think that's ok
mind_mistress: It's okay to feel this way :)
mind_mistress: normal, even
big_boss2008: normal sounds nice
big_boss2008: :-)
big_boss2008: when you said to picture things, i pictured me at one of those office parties... and being with the "wives"... as a woman. and how much more normal and comfortable that would be.
mind_mistress: :)
big_boss2008: it is a nice thing to think about, actually. being honest. weird, but honest.
big_boss2008: maybe then i could talk about whatever they talk about instead of just tracking down the people passing appetizers. :-)
big_boss2008: it would be nice to be one of them
big_boss2008: its ok to say that, right?
mind_mistress: It's okay to be happy with yourself and your life honey :)
big_boss2008: but that's wishing for something that isn't, and can't really be. but it feels nice to wish it and it's not in a whiny way
big_boss2008: just nice to think about is all
mind_mistress: you can be "one of the girls" even if you aren't
big_boss2008: that'd be nice
mind_mistress: Gay men are often taken as "one of the girls" in a group of women
mind_mistress: if you act like you belong, then you will
big_boss2008: i'm not gay
mind_mistress: I was just giving an example
big_boss2008: ok
big_boss2008: even as a woman, i would be straight
mind_mistress: you're a wife with a husband. Quite straight
big_boss2008: yes
mind_mistress: you should get some sleep
big_boss2008: yes you're right
mind_mistress: Good night honey :)
big_boss2008: good night and thank you
mind_mistress: keep me posted...
big_boss2008: i will!!
Multiple Offline Messages:
big_boss2008: Hi Linda. Have much to discuss, if you have the time and are interested. I've had a few more discussions with my wife. It was very awkward at first but I think it is good? I don't know, I guess. It helps so much to be able to bounce things off you, because it's confusing to me. But I totally understand if you're busy, as you've already been incredibly wonderful with your friendship and advice.
...
mind_mistress: Okay
...
big_boss2008: Hi Linda. Please let me know if there is a convenient time for you to chat, and I'll do my best to be around. Hope you enjoyed your long weekend. Good night.
...
mind_mistress: I'm here most evenings
mind_mistress: and we have different holidays in Canada
...
big_boss2008: Hi there. Might you be online now?
...
mind_mistress: yes
mind_mistress: Mind_Mistress-hypnoticwishes-com it's on the website.
...
big_boss2008: Thanks for the email address. I'll try to write something to you in the next day or so... assuming I can figure out how to describe this.
big_boss2008: Have a great weekend.
...
mind_mistress: okay :)
Negotiating A New Happiness
Fourth Chat : June 6, 2008
big_boss2008: You don't happen to be here tonight, do you?
mind_mistress: YES
big_boss2008: Oh hi! So wonderful to see you. You're doing well, I hope?
mind_mistress: yes :)
big_boss2008: Do you have a bit of time to chat? I'd love to try to figure out a way to update you... its a bit hard to get my mind around.
mind_mistress: Sure...
mind_mistress: though I have someone coming soon
big_boss2008: Ok, well I'll try to give you the brief version. Where did I leave you?
mind_mistress: you had some discussions with her
mind_mistress: and you still felt demeaned because you thought women's work was less important
mind_mistress: and I helped you with that
big_boss2008: Well... I had a big talk with her. We actually have had a bunch of them. I basically told her.. what we talked about. That I wanted to be what she wanted to support her. And after a lot of prodding, she admited. She wants a wife. She wants me to be her wife. She was so happy that I was willing to not have to do what people would think we "should" do.. or "should" be.
mind_mistress: :)
big_boss2008: She said that part of the reason she was so mad that night that I dressed up and made dinner was that she thought I was making fun of her... and because part of her really did want that.
big_boss2008: She does want that. She wants me to be her wife.
mind_mistress: That's what I thought
mind_mistress: But it took something shocking to get you two really talking
big_boss2008: Yeah.
big_boss2008: I just don't know if this is too weird. Or how to do it.
big_boss2008: I think she's not sure exactly what she wants in some ways. And she's still a bit, I think, embarassed when we talk about it. But the more the merrier is what I think she thinks.
big_boss2008: She even said she might prefer that I stop working. I litterally make very little money compared to her, and she said we don't need it.
mind_mistress: How do you feel about that?
big_boss2008: I don't know, really. I feel confused.
big_boss2008: The stuff you said... about how I felt demeaned? I don't feel that. I understand what you meant and feel a bit ashamed that I thought that way. And I'm sorry if I came off as a jerk to you.
big_boss2008: But I think she wants me to be... a real wife, you know? And consider her my husband? I would like to make her happy. I really would. But I'm not sure I can do that. I don't know how.
mind_mistress: You'll have to reinvent yourself and your relationship
big_boss2008: Yes.
mind_mistress: So start imagining :)
mind_mistress: possibilities
big_boss2008: She has said many things about what she wants. But the sense I get, the things that come up the most are that she wants me to be "pliant" (she has said that word the most), accomodating, feminine, and other things I can't really describe.
big_boss2008: Oh, I know another one. She doesn't say that she wants me to just worry about how to make her happy... she says it's that she wants making her happy to make ME happy. She wants that to be where I get my happiness... because then we'll both be happy. I don't quite get it ,but it sounds nice.
mind_mistress: :)
mind_mistress: Well, imagine what it would feel like to be that way
big_boss2008: I feel like it's too much for me to get my mind around, Linda. I want to, but it feels so big.
big_boss2008: By the way, is it ok that I call you Linda?
mind_mistress: sure
mind_mistress: Well, do it in little bits, trying on small parts of what she wants
mind_mistress: you can't change everything at once, even if you wanted to
big_boss2008: She gave me a little task. She wants me to suggest a girl name she could call me. The way she asked me... she didn't say she wanted me to pick it. She said she wanted me to suggest it to her. That's the thing I can't describe. I don't know how to describe that.. but that kind of attutude is how she wants to act towards me. and that's ok with me.
mind_mistress: She sounds like she has a good plan
big_boss2008: I told her Bobbi. Since I mostly go by "Bob" (only
big_boss2008: my folks called me Robert) but no, she didn't like it. She felt like I wasn't giving it real thought.
mind_mistress: sounds good
big_boss2008: Do you have any suggestions?
mind_mistress: for what?
big_boss2008: For a name maybe?
mind_mistress: what about bobbi?
big_boss2008: She didn't like it. She said it sounded like I wasn't really thinking hard enough or taking it seriously.
mind_mistress: How about Kelly?
big_boss2008: I swear to you, I am taking this seriously... I really want to make it work.
big_boss2008: Do I seem like a Kelly?
mind_mistress: I don't know. It's a pretty name.
big_boss2008: Yeah, I guess so.
big_boss2008: I also thought Robin, but didn't want to suggest it in case she thought I was doing the easy way too.
big_boss2008: But I'll suggest Kelly to her.
mind_mistress: Robin is nice too
big_boss2008: You know, it doesn't much matter... since I don't know how I'm going to be this. I feel lost.
big_boss2008: I know you have someone coming, so I shouldn't take up more of your time tonight.
big_boss2008: I so appreciate you letting me tell you this stuff.
mind_mistress: I think you should confide your fears with her
big_boss2008: But this is a business for you, and I feel like by chatting with you I'm taking advantage of your being nice.
big_boss2008: I have done that. And she understand. She said... what I am feeling is a lot like what she was feeling when she was trying to fit in to a life that wasn't easy for her.
big_boss2008: I get that... thanks to you.
mind_mistress: Well, you can offer me compensation if you want by letting me post your logs anonymously
mind_mistress: I'm sure many would find it interesting
big_boss2008: Oh you absolutely can do that if you wish. I'd be happy if that would please you.
mind_mistress: Thank you :)
big_boss2008: No, thank you.
big_boss2008: I'm totally willing to chat more about this Linda... I will totally take your advice and am willing to do whatever will make this good for us.
mind_mistress: The chat is interesting... but I have a guest. So we'll chat more another time :)
big_boss2008: And you can post anything/everything you wish if that works for you. It actually makes me feel good to think maybe it would help someone.
mind_mistress: thank you!
big_boss2008: Ok, thank you.
mind_mistress: I'm sure this will help others.
big_boss2008: Great. And looking forward to chatting more. You don't know how much you've helped me so far.
big_boss2008: Good night.
mind_mistress: Good night ;;)
The Road to Heaven is Paved with Good Intentions
Or was it Hell? I always confuse those two...
