Emasculated Husband Counseling
Part 1 of 2
As women get more high paying corporate jobs, men find themselves more and more in the role of the supportive wife, or even housewife. It's hard on the male ego, and they whine about how their wife isn't feminine anymore. This chat log is one example of what I do to help people in therapy. In this case, how I helped a husband become a happy wife. Enjoy!
Part 1
Chat 1: How Can I Convince My Corporate Wife To Be More Feminine ?
Chat 2: I Dressed Up As A House-Wife To Shock Her: The Results
Part 2
Chat 3: Sealing the Deal: The Man Becomes The Wife
Chat 4: Negotiating A New Happiness
Sometimes, I give a little free advice on chat. And sometimes I get interested to the point of doing some free therapy, Mind Mistress style.
Really, my only goal is for people to be happy. And if that requires twisting their minds into pretzels with NLP,... well, such things just can't be helped. It's for a good cause, you know?
You'll notice that I don't need hypnosis to create very deep changes, as proven in this chat log. NLP has many tools to do so in what is apparently nothing more than a pleasant chat.
Other than a little editing and layout, this is our chat exactly as it happened. Whether it's real or not, I don't know. I can only assume the person I was chatting with was honest. The nickname has been changed for anonymity, and this log is posted with permission.
How Can I Convince My Corporate Wife To Be More Feminine ?
First Chat: May 11,2008
big_boss2008: Hello. Sorry I missed you. Is there a particular time you're usually here and available to chat? I'd be happy to try to work my schedule around it at some point.
mind_mistress: Hi
big_boss2008: Oh, hello!
big_boss2008: So nice to finallly meet you. My name is Bob.
mind_mistress: Hi Bob
big_boss2008: Have I caught you at a bad time?
mind_mistress: Not really
big_boss2008: There's something inherently rude about IMs, you know? Like you're busting in on someone in the bathroom or something. :-)
mind_mistress: :)
mind_mistress: If I wasn't willing, I wouldn't answer
mind_mistress: I often ignore IMs unless there's some question to anwer.
big_boss2008: Well then I appreciate even more so your responding to me tonight. Many thanks.
big_boss2008: My wife is just getting over a spring cold that had her down last week.
big_boss2008: From reading your site, you seem like a really cool and straight forward person. So in the interest of honesty, I have to admit that I came to your site initially for one purpose that wasn't very nice, but now that has changed somewhat. Or at least I've realize my error.
mind_mistress: Okay ;;)
mind_mistress: Let me guess
mind_mistress: You were going to turn your wife into a sex fiend without asking her first
big_boss2008: LOL... no, that sounds way exaggerated. I had just been looking for a way to... rekindle her femininity. Nothing so gross (no pun intended) like a sex fiend. I just think she's sort of gotten away from being interested in being a woman, you know?
mind_mistress: Yes
big_boss2008: And believe me, even saying it, I know it sounds selfish. Because she's awesome in a million other ways. She has a great job with tons of stress, so I understand all of that. And appreciate how hard she works, etc. I really do.
mind_mistress: You wouldn't believe the things people ask me for
big_boss2008: My friends envy me because of how great she is.
mind_mistress: There's nothing at all wrong with what you want, provided you discuss your needs with her and she agrees
big_boss2008: But...she just doesn't... she's just not concerned with how she looks, acts, etc. Not anymore. Less so all the time.
mind_mistress: and if she loves you, your needs probably matter to her
mind_mistress: even if her appearance doesn't
mind_mistress: and you may be able to work out some fair trade for what you want
big_boss2008: I agree with what you just said. What is wrong is thinking about changing someone against their will. I assure you, I had no nefarious plans. I was just... looking.
big_boss2008: And I have spoken to her about it. They aren't fun discussions.
big_boss2008: She loves me, but she feels like between her job and handling all our finances etc... I should understand that she doesn't have time for everything.
mind_mistress: When dating, women make an effort to be more appealing. Once married, there is no need for that... and less efforts are made.
big_boss2008: She feels I'm being selfish. She says that, yeah, her friends who don't work have "girl" hobbies, shop a lot, are concerned with appearance, etc... but that's just not her.
big_boss2008: She used to be more like that. A lot more. Even in the first few years we were married.
big_boss2008: Then she got a big promotion and there was a shift. Not to be crass, but I used to make like twice what she does, and now that's reversed. And since that point... there's be a change.
mind_mistress: Now, has she told you in what ways *you* have changed?
big_boss2008: No, but she's told me in what ways she wishes I would.
mind_mistress: let's hear it
big_boss2008: She wishes I'd be more understanding of what pressures she is under. Wishes I could carry the load on more things, since I can get home earlier than she does, etc.
mind_mistress: take care of the house and such?
big_boss2008: But I've tried. Like... she asked me to be responsible for dinner as a rule. And I've done that.
big_boss2008: Just chip in. Dinner. And I've also been doing some laundry.
big_boss2008: I know I should have been doing that before and she shouldn't have had to have asked.
big_boss2008: I'm not perfect, I know.
mind_mistress: No one is
mind_mistress: we're all doing our best
big_boss2008: Yeah
mind_mistress: What's important to her in life?
big_boss2008: Her career and me, and her family.
mind_mistress: you can't motivate someone if you don't know their values
mind_mistress: how are they ranked?
big_boss2008: I think what I just said is accurate.
mind_mistress: Probably
big_boss2008: We moved when she took this job, and I had to take a lesser job than I had. I like it fine.. but now I have more a "job" and less a "career."
big_boss2008: I hope I'm not coming across as a sexist. I don't mean to be, and don't think that I am.
mind_mistress: In other words, you've been put in the situation many women are put. And it feels odd.
big_boss2008: Yes, and I've been trying to fix it.
mind_mistress: It's perfectly understandable
mind_mistress: Leave it to Beaver never prepared men for this
big_boss2008: She doesn't understand, as I said.
big_boss2008: LOL
mind_mistress: :)
mind_mistress: she provides and you support
big_boss2008: But she thinks I need to support more... and I wish she "provided" more for me in her role was wife and woman, you know?
mind_mistress: so what can I do for you?
big_boss2008: I guess I come to you seeking advice. She doesn't want to change in the way I want her to. The fantasy aspect on your website... the idea of change.... I found it both exciting and then when I thought about "doing" something to her... made me feel horrible.
mind_mistress: Mind control is a valid fantasy
mind_mistress: there's no shame in that
mind_mistress: makes for great masturbation
mind_mistress: It's just the application of it that usually goes catastrophically wrong.
big_boss2008: But is it just fantasy? Those chat logs.... I mean, they seem as if they are acting. So is that what it is meant to be? Fantasy for masturbation?
mind_mistress: Oh, it's real
mind_mistress: but it only works with consent
big_boss2008: I am absolutley NOT trying insult you or put down anything... please don't take it that way. I'm honestly very naive about this.
big_boss2008: So please don't be offended.
mind_mistress: All those people in the logs came to me...
mind_mistress: and they all consented, explicitly or implicitly
big_boss2008: I understand that. But what I mean is... those logs are role play, yes?
mind_mistress: I mean, come on... what's to prevent people from walking away from the computer :)
big_boss2008: Or is that not what you are saying?
mind_mistress: No, they're real
big_boss2008: That's a bit mind blowing, I have to say.
mind_mistress: If I knock on your door...
mind_mistress: you can let me in or not. It's your choice
big_boss2008: I have absolutely no reason to doubt you, so I take you at your word. It's just not what I thought when reading them. Wow.
mind_mistress: but once you open the door...
big_boss2008: So then... any advice for me? Seems like, exciting as this is, it isn't really something that can help my situation.
mind_mistress: So what exactly do you want her to do ? Makeup? Clothes?
big_boss2008: Yes...and maybe not be the only woman in the group to order a beer when we go out with couples.
mind_mistress: By the way, here's a good phrase to help her understand. You probably feel "emasculated"
big_boss2008: That is exactly it.
big_boss2008: And I've used that word with her.
big_boss2008: She says that... it is our relationship. Not a "type" or something has to conform... so why does it have to be normal?
mind_mistress: kids around?
big_boss2008: no.
mind_mistress: Realizing that I'm a pervert...
mind_mistress: I do have a suggestion
mind_mistress: :D
big_boss2008: LOL
big_boss2008: I'm all ears. Or opening the door, whichever way you prefer.
mind_mistress: ever crossdressed?
big_boss2008: No, I never have.
mind_mistress: Well, what you need is leverage
big_boss2008: But I feel like she does with her current wardrobe. LOL
mind_mistress: Cause she is in the power position
big_boss2008: Yes
big_boss2008: Suits M-F, and jeans on the weekend. That's what she wears.
mind_mistress: So either you leverage on her values...
mind_mistress: or on her beliefs
big_boss2008: I don't follow
mind_mistress: Values are about what's important
mind_mistress: unfortunately, you rank below her job and comfort
mind_mistress: so unless you're willing to put her job in jeopardy...
mind_mistress: that probably won't work
big_boss2008: She loves me... but I think... she just wants our relationship to be more in line with who she is now, as opposed to who she was.
mind_mistress: Your couple is out of balance
big_boss2008: Well I'd never put her job in jeopardy. Heck, we need it more than ever now.
mind_mistress: because she's become more masculine, and you're uncomfortable with becoming more feminine
big_boss2008: Yes!
big_boss2008: I'm not thrilled with it being said that way, but that is it.
mind_mistress: So one of two things needs to occur...
mind_mistress: either you become more comfortable with being more feminine
mind_mistress: or you shock her into NOT wanting you more feminine
big_boss2008: I think "feminine" is too strong.
mind_mistress: I don't think so
mind_mistress: She's done all but hand you a skirt
mind_mistress: she's taken over the masculine role, function, and clothing styles
big_boss2008: Well... I don't go to her corporate functions any more, I'll tell you that. I get stuck at the "wives" tables... there are a few other guys, but not many. I hate it.
big_boss2008: And, she likes it.
mind_mistress: Like I said...
mind_mistress: either you become more comfortable with being more feminine
mind_mistress: or you shock her into NOT wanting you more feminine
big_boss2008: How?
mind_mistress: She's been wanting you to be a wife
mind_mistress: Well, you tried arguing against it
mind_mistress: and that didn't work
mind_mistress: so how about giving her exactly what she's asked for?
big_boss2008: LOL.
big_boss2008: Well I'll tell you this much.. you mentioned Leave it to Beaver before? Those 50's housewives had a pretty damn sweet deal if you ask me.
big_boss2008: LOL
mind_mistress: Well then...
mind_mistress: Offer it to her on a silver platter
mind_mistress: She'll either take it, or reject it
mind_mistress: Greet her dressed as a sexy housewife, with a meal underway
mind_mistress: Tell her this is what she's asked for
mind_mistress: and if she's gonna dress and act like a man, then someone has to be the woman
big_boss2008: I'm 5-8, 275 pounds... not thinking I'm ever pulling off "sexy housewife."
big_boss2008: She'd throw me out.
mind_mistress: Frumpy then
mind_mistress: It's to make a point.
mind_mistress: Either she wants to be a woman...
mind_mistress: and she's willing to be one...
mind_mistress: or she isn't
big_boss2008: I'm not saying that part of her doesn't wish, secretly, that she was a man and I were a woman. She used to always complain how easy I had it back when I was the career person.. but what you're talking about...
big_boss2008: So you're saying I do it, but play it off as a joke or something?
mind_mistress: Yes
big_boss2008: I don't know...
mind_mistress: "Honey, I'll take off the dress... if you're willing to wear one some of the time"
mind_mistress: "You're emasculating me"
mind_mistress: "This is the result"
mind_mistress: "Is this what you want?"
mind_mistress: "To have a wife?"
mind_mistress: "and to be the man?"
mind_mistress: "Cause that's how you're acting"
big_boss2008: I don't think I want her thinking about those questions.. .do I?big_boss2008: What if her answer is yes?
mind_mistress: Then you have to decide what you want
mind_mistress: either be her wife, or get out of dodge
big_boss2008: Don't think it hasn't crossed my mind that she maybe... isn't as into guys as she used to be.
big_boss2008: I want us to be happy.
big_boss2008: I think we are, kind of. But her more than me.
mind_mistress: I don't see any other way to restore the balance
mind_mistress: If you want to be happy in skirts, THAT I can help with easily :D
big_boss2008: LOL.
mind_mistress: Or if SHE wants to be happy in skirts, I can help there too
big_boss2008: No matter how real the stuff on your site is, that one is beyond your ability, trust me. LOL
mind_mistress: All I need is consent
big_boss2008: She is happy as she is. She'd be pissed if she knew I was even chatting about this.
mind_mistress: You're right.
mind_mistress: What are you doing talking to me when there's laundry to be done?
big_boss2008: LOL
big_boss2008: Aren't you funny! :-D
mind_mistress: ;;)
mind_mistress: You wanted my advice. You have it
big_boss2008: Maybe being a wife... a for real wife... look, if I were a woman, I know I'd be acting a lot differently than she is, is all I'll say.
mind_mistress: For one thing, it sounds like you're out of shape
big_boss2008: Yes
mind_mistress: What's good for the goose...
mind_mistress: ... is good for the gander
mind_mistress: you want her to dress up sexy, while you get fat on potato chips...
mind_mistress: it doesn't work that way buddy
big_boss2008: You're right
big_boss2008: Well maybe... I'll try your idea.
big_boss2008: I mean, as a joke.
mind_mistress: I do have a weight loss CD :)
big_boss2008: LOL
big_boss2008: Can you push me over the edge? I think I'm pretty convinced.
mind_mistress: It's worth a shot
mind_mistress: There's a principle in NLP...
big_boss2008: What is NLP?
mind_mistress: It's what I do
big_boss2008: I thought it was hypnosis?
mind_mistress: hypnosis is one small portion of NLP
big_boss2008: Ok
mind_mistress: I just use it a lot
mind_mistress: the principle is...
mind_mistress: if what you're doing isn't working
mind_mistress: Then anything ELSE has a better chance of working
mind_mistress: than something you KNOW isn't working
big_boss2008: True
mind_mistress: nothing you've tried has worked
mind_mistress: So either come up with some new idea...
mind_mistress: or use the one I've suggested
mind_mistress: because if you keep doing the same thing, you'll keep getting the same results
big_boss2008: But what isn't working... doesn't involve me, wearing a dress. :-)
big_boss2008: I don't even think I'd fit into her dresses...though.
mind_mistress: Second hand stores
big_boss2008: Maybe some of her shirts or something? Does it have to be a dress.
mind_mistress: Lotsa fat ladies drop off dresses there...
big_boss2008: Oh god, go BUY a dress? I don't think I could do that.
big_boss2008: Just being honest.
mind_mistress: Too much stress?
big_boss2008: Yes!!
mind_mistress: from 0 to 10, how stressful is that?
big_boss2008: I could see myself, going into her closet tomorrow... putting something on and waiting for her to come home. But that seems way over the top.
big_boss2008: That going to the store part is a 10
mind_mistress: And how stressful is a divorce?
big_boss2008: A divorce would be horrible.
mind_mistress: What's worse?
big_boss2008: They are different.
big_boss2008: And you're right, a divorce is worse... but still... I couldn't walk into a second hand clothing store and buy a dres for myself.
big_boss2008: I just can't even imagine it.
mind_mistress: Well, you asked me how to fix your marriage. If you don't have the balls to carry it out, it's really NOT my problem.
mind_mistress: Go see a marriage counselor. Get some self help books
big_boss2008: No... what I'm saying is... does it have to be a dress?
big_boss2008: And please don't talk about me not having balls... that's already my problem. :-)
mind_mistress: Maybe find a good meditation teacher
mind_mistress: Ommmmmmmm
big_boss2008: I'm going to try on stuff in her closet tomorrow, ok?
big_boss2008: Can I try that first?
mind_mistress: You know it won't fit
mind_mistress: you also feel emasculated because you're out of shape and too lazy to take care of it, even knowing that proving yourself to be a man might change her view of you.
mind_mistress: So the alternative to the dress is to go to the gym
mind_mistress: That might work.
mind_mistress: Maybe
mind_mistress: It can't hurt, at any rate
big_boss2008: That's true
mind_mistress: But it's hundreds of hours of effort compared to one hour of embarassment
mind_mistress: Frankly, I don't care
big_boss2008: Yeah, true
mind_mistress: I've given you my time and expertise
mind_mistress: for free
mind_mistress: it's up to you
big_boss2008: Can I ask.. if I did this... what size would I be looking for?
mind_mistress: I have no clue
mind_mistress: Big second hand stores... like the Salvation Army
mind_mistress: or Value Village here...
mind_mistress: no one gives a fuck
mind_mistress: you pick up stuff, and go to try it out
mind_mistress: the standard line is: "It's for a play"
mind_mistress: but you'll never get to use it, cause no one cares
big_boss2008: Oh god... turn the stress up to 11. LOL
big_boss2008: Ok.. I'll try it. I actually will try it.
mind_mistress: Why?
big_boss2008: I don't want to talk to anyone. I'd rather grab pay and flee.
mind_mistress: Sure
mind_mistress: you can use that line if you want, but really, there's no point
mind_mistress: I mean, you see a man walk down the street in a zebra costume
mind_mistress: do you care?
big_boss2008: NO
mind_mistress: in a dress. Do you care?
big_boss2008: No, to each his own.
mind_mistress: Exactly
mind_mistress: you're the only one who actually cares what you look like
mind_mistress: at least among strangers
big_boss2008: That's true
big_boss2008: Ok... so I'll leave work 30 minutes early tomorrow (the advantage of a "job" instead of a "career") and I will go dress shopping. And then I will try this tomorrow. What do i have to lose?
mind_mistress: Exactly :)
mind_mistress: Though I'd take the time to prepare a bit first
mind_mistress: Shoes... some makeup...
mind_mistress: practice first
mind_mistress: see if it all fits
mind_mistress: the idea is not to look like a clown
big_boss2008: I'm not wearing makeup. The dress should be enough, yes? That will have the effect.
mind_mistress: You have to do everything you want her to do
mind_mistress: That's the whole idea
mind_mistress: you want her in heels, you have to wear heels
mind_mistress: cause you can then say, you want me out of heels, then you wear some
mind_mistress: ;)
big_boss2008: Well then I need a boob job. (kidding!!!!)
mind_mistress: Take your time... there's no need to rush the plan
mind_mistress: I have a call to make.
mind_mistress: Good night
big_boss2008: No, I think I need to go for it while I've got it in me.
mind_mistress: Use everything you want her to use...
big_boss2008: Ok, thank you... I'll let you know how it goes.
mind_mistress: or else you won't be able to negotiate her doing it
mind_mistress: As you wish
big_boss2008: If it goes really badly... got a cot I could sleep on? :-)
mind_mistress: good night :)
mind_mistress: nope
big_boss2008: Good night. and wonderful meeting you. Thanks for your time and the advice
mind_mistress: Just remember...
mind_mistress: TANSTAAFL
mind_mistress: There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.
big_boss2008: Ah ok. That's a terrible acroynm, by the way. :-)
big_boss2008: Thanks again. You are terrific. It was so nice to be able to talk about this. Good night.
mind_mistress: Blame Robert Heinlein
mind_mistress: If you want something, it's gonna cost you...
big_boss2008: Ok,but I'd have to figure out who he was first.
mind_mistress: Author
mind_mistress: Scifi
mind_mistress: later...
I Dressed Up As A House-Wife To Shock Her: The Results
Second Chat: May 13, 2008
big_boss2008: Good afternoon. Just wanted to let you know I went into a local salvation army and, despite my heart beating like it was going to pop out of my chest, i actually purchased a dress. it is blue with some sort of white repeating design on it. It was a size 3x. It was $9.99. But you were right, no one gave a crap. I just took it up, paid cash and got out of there.
big_boss2008: Stupid as this sounds, I feel like I accomplished something. :-)
big_boss2008: Hope you ahve a nice day.
mind_mistress: Well done! :)
big_boss2008: Thanks! I appreciate you saying that. Means a lot coming from you.
big_boss2008: Hi. just wanted to let you know I tried what we discussed tonight. I was pretty happy with myself for doing it... but it did not go very well. at all. But I do think it was a great suggestion and I just wanted to thank you for it.
mind_mistress: So what happened?
mind_mistress: There's a difference between a short term bad reaction and a long term one... in the short term, you really couldn't expect her to be happy with you calling her on her emasculation of you. But now it's going to be about what to do about it, and communicating with her.
big_boss2008: What happened was that she got angry. I tried to play it off as a joke, but she took it as if I was saying she was "failing" at being a woman. She said she didn't want to be a housewife, and that I should know that by now... and said that she'd be happy to take that role. But mostly she was pissed because it was like I was making fun of her. I didn't get to say much in the "argument" and that's my fault. She has gotten very assertive in our arguments, and I have concluded that I'm better off just "nodding" and doing the "I'm sorry you feel that way" stuff until it blows over. She slept in our guest room last night, even after I said I would... but when she woke up this morning we didn't mention it and she was fine. She just made one crack by saying "where's my breakfast?" and
big_boss2008: then laughed a little.
big_boss2008: So I felt bad that she took it like I was making fun of her. As you know, I wasn't trying to do that at all. And I actually cooked a really nice dinner, which of course got cold and we never ate.
big_boss2008: I don't want to exagerate, though. The whole "fight" lasted about 5-6 minutes, tops. It only felt longer. :-)
big_boss2008: By the way, I just reread.. She said she'd be happy if I took the role of housewife. Not happy to do it herself. Sorry if that wasn't clear. But she was just lashing out.
mind_mistress: Now that she's over being upset, you have an opening to talk about the topic and how you feel.
